Stargazing - what do we know today?

[Hurley]

I've gotten a lot of emails about the gene and wanting to know what's going on now with it, so I figured I'd get a thread going to give the low-down of where I'm at in my collection in general and what we know currently about the condition.

BACKGROUND INFO

The word "stargazing" itself is a general term that indicates a neurologic problem in animals in which the animal has a tendency to hold the head back, "gazing at the stars". This symptom indicates dorsoflexion (head thrown back) and fixed staring up at rest. This symptom across the animal kingdom can be seen for a variety of reasons including neurologic conditions as well as anatomic abnormalities or pain. Causes of neurologic abnormalities leading to stargazing are varied, including:

• Toxin Exposure (no pest strips and insecticides most common with snakes)
• Heat or Cold Stress
• Viral Disease (Boids with inclusion body disease (IBD) - retroviral cause)
  (link to more info: http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in.../bc/171413.htm)
• Bacterial Disease (bacterial meningitis, etc.)
• Trauma (crushing while closing the cage, falling cage furniture, etc.)
• Congenital abnormalities (hydrocephalus, kinked neck, others)
• Tumor of the skull/brain
• Respiratory Disease in Snakes - will often sit with head held in abnormal positions when struggling against an URI
• Heritable Disease in the Corn Snake - unknown mechanism at this time

When discussing what we think of as THE stargazing in corns, what we are referring to is a heritable condition that actually appears to be an abnormal vestibular system (balance system) leading to animals that have difficulty knowing which way is up, especially when they lose visual landmarks (like when picked up) or when they are excited.

Perhaps more appropriately termed "Heritable Vestibular Syndrome in the Corn Snake", stargazing in this sense refers to a very specific condition we have been researching for the past several years.

CLINICAL SIGNS

• Condition present at hatch
• Condition does not worsen over time (may appear to improve as the snake learns to adapt with age)
• More noticeable when the snake is agitated/excited
• Appear normal at rest (though may assume bizarre positions at times)
• Will weave the head back and forth, sometimes rolling the head back or to the side
• When fleeing, may crawl upside down or flip between back to stomach
• Often will sit with head raised up or flipped over backwards
• Hugs the hand tight, crawling backwards to stabilize itself when unbalanced/picked up
• Unpredicatable crawling, especially when agitated, uncoordinated
• Eats, Drinks, Sheds, Grows, Breeds, Lays Eggs Normally (other than the above mentioned signs)
• Has never been shown to be contagious, even with co-habbed snakes or siblings
• Other than imbalance, does not impact the quality of the snake's life, does not affect cognitive ability, and the snakes display the same emotions as normal snakes with no sign of added stress due to the condition (i.e. they don't appear to suffer from the condition)

What we have tested so far:

• A full pathologic evaluation was done on a sacrificed hatchling stargazing corn snake to determine if there is an anatomic cause for the condition or any signs of viral disease (inclusion bodies in cells typical of viral infection). The histopathologic results were detailed and normal. No cause for the condition was seen at a microscopic level.

Tests recommended to be completed in the future

• Full blood screen to rule out certain metabolic causes.
• Histopathologic analysis on an adult stargazer to give the pathologist a larger specimen to examine to see if subtle anatomic defects are present that weren't seen in the hatchling.
• A CSF analysis would be helpful, though technically challenging to collect.

The above 3 things could be performed on a single adult animal that was humanely euthanized. We have plans for this in the future with an adult gazer at some point.

Breeding tests completed in multiple pairings:

• Non-carrier x Non-carrier - no gazers produced
• Carrier to Non-carrier - no gazers produced (not a dominant or co-dominant trait)
• Carrier to Carrier - 25% of the clutch are gazers, no sex predilection, no linkage shown to sunkissed morph (inherits independently)

Have been able to determine carriers and then cross to another carrier with predictable results as above.

Breeding tests to be completed this season (hopefully):

• Gazer x Non-carrier - predicted no gazers
• Gazer x Carrier - predicted 50% gazers
• Gazer x Gazer - predicted 100% gazers - this is the nail for the coffin on the test crosses

Stargazing In My Collection - Current Status

I have stargazing in my collection. Let me be the first to say it, and say it with no shame, slight, or embarrassment. This is not a venereal disease, though it seems to be treated as such. It is not something to be embarrassed about and not something to hide. It is a fact of nature. A mutation occurred in the past and this mutation, just like amelanism or anerythrism, is a genetic accident that has been passed down through generations and due to its recessive nature pops up when carriers are paired.

Brief background on the gene: It was first noted to crop up sporadically in an Okeetee line here and there. Presumed to be incubational stress or something at first, it became apparent after some years of seeing these show up that the condition appeared to have a heritable cause. Review of the records did indeed show a definite correlation to certain individuals producing the effect and the pattern seemed to fit a simple recessive inheritance.

The gene originated about the same time the sunkissed trait originated, and in the same colony, therefore all sunkissed animals are descended form the same stock that originated stargazing as I have never heard of sunkissed arising/being found anywhere else independently. Due to outcrossing, the stargazing gene is no longer isolated to a particular line of Okeetees and Sunkisseds, but can be presumed to be widely distributed due to wholesaling and sales without pedigrees of a large volume of sunkissed project animals over the past several years.

Knowing the above, within my own collection, I have begun testing animals that have a presumed risk of potentially carrying stargazing in my collection. I obtained a Sunkissed male (Sir) that has produced stargazers and bred him to my Okeetee het sunkissed female (Mattie) to test her for stargazing since she was sold to me with honest disclosure as having been sired by a male that had produced stargazers in the past.

My first pairing of these two animals produced 2 very large clutches of animals, showing near perfect mendalian predicted results as follows:

• 25% stargazers in both clutches/75% completely normal appearing hatchlings
• Of the stargazers, half were male, half were female (as expected, no sex linkage shown)
• Of the stargazers, half were Okeetee, half were Sunkissed (as expected in an Oke het sunkissed x Sunkissed pairing, no morph linkage shown to sunkissed)

Also noted and confirmed were that the hatchlings were hatched affected, remained affected, never progressed, and I never saw any siblings come down with symptoms later (and I now have some of the clutch into adulthood, gazers and non-gazers).

The Okeetee het sunkissed and stargazing female (Mattie) was also crossed to my other Sunkissed male (Strong Bad) descended from the same line. In 2 large clutches, not a single stargazer was produced. I have one from this pairing (Shere Khan) that will being tested this year to a gazer male to test for carrier status, as I am presuming her to be 50% possible het stargazing. She produced a large clutch when crossed to the non-carrier male (Strong Bad) last season with no gazers seen (and none expected) for an unrelated project. She will be tested this season and if found to be a carrier, her progeny from last season will be tested out to identify some clear animals to continue the line.

Summary:

At this time, of the animals that have been tested from Okeetee/Sunkissed lineage:

1.1 have been identified as carriers of stargazing
1.0 has been identified as clear of stargazing
1.3 possible carriers are being tested to carriers or gazers this season
1.1 gazers will be test crossed to each other to prove the inheritance mode

Cleared lines are being determined and will then be crossed to produce sunkissed gazer-free stock for future projects.

Known hets for stargazing (and potentially homozygous gazers) will be made available to people for the purpose of test crossing to clear their lines only.

The reason gazers are being used in our testing is to give a higher percent likelihood of an animal being clear if no gazers are produced in addition to knowing that the progeny are 100% carriers, for the purpose of testing animals as needed.

The ACR is being used to note any findings I make, marking animals as Gazers, Carriers, Gazer-free (tested clear or descended from cleared animals), and Unknown Gazer Status. I will likely be working for some years to come to identify which lines are clear and which aren't as I have several projects descended from some sunkisseds that are no longer in my colletion to be tested.

The rest of the collection (the non-sunkissed project animals) are presumed clear if I know that there were no Okeetee/Sunkissed animals in the line back to 1998. I am lucky in that the majority of my animals anymore are home produced and have history back several generations so that helps with the logical exclusion of the majority of non-sunkissed project animals. Since the first outcrossings of these animals was made in 2000 (and the first F2s made in 2003), it is highly unlikely that a non-Okeetee/Sunkissed animal carries the gene if the pedigree is known back to 2003 or so.

(Kathy never outcrossed the Okeetees/Sunkisseds early on. Rich was the first to do so to my knowledge back in 1999, crossing some Okeetees het hypo to a Sunkissed (then thought to be hypo) Okeetee and producing normals. In 2000 he crossed the Sunkissed Okeetee to 3 Hypo Okeetee females and after that the outcrossing began. Gazers have been reported from these outcrossings from at least 3 adult pairs in 2006 which indicates they hatched around 2003 or so. This information is provided for the purpose of others being able to look at the pedigrees of their snakes to determine risk for their non-Okeetee/non-Sunkissed lines to carry the stargazing gene. Timing itself can be used to clear some animals, so the dates above will hopefully be useful to people.)

At this point, every animal I produce is registered with the ACR and any known history of the animal (including ancestors, breeders of those ancestors, etc.) is visible with a search of the registry. It's an open book. My plans are to continue working to make my collection as reliably gazer free as possible (with the exception of keeping tester animals to use on an as needed basis to clear lines). Animals from Sunkissed/Okeetee lines if sold are sold with full disclosure with the information I have available at the time and I try to keep my records updated in the ACR should anything change so that if someone with animals descended from my stuff should look back, the information is there.

Do I sell any animals right now if I don't know 100000% that they are clear? Answer at this time, yes, I do. If they have a higher than normal risk for carrying the gene (i.e. more than a 50% possible het stargazing) than the average sunkissed population, then they are culled or dispersed as possible tester animals. If they have a normal or lower than normal risk, they are sold as "gazer status unknown" which covers all sunkissed descended stock currently from anyone that hasn't tested the stock. (Saying "I've never seen one in my lines" does not mean it isn't there and they all have the same risk.) With those animals that are not from tested clear lines, I have (and will continue to) try to let people know what I know about the history and if I have the plan (i.e. have the ability to) test the animal(s) in the pedigree that are suspect.

Though no one has asked, I'm going to say it anyway as I feel no embarrassment or shame in it: Am I guilty of selling stargazer carriers in the past? Yes, I am. Guilty as charged.

Prior to figuring out what was going on with stargazing and before we knew what to expect and if testing was possible, I bred Mattie (the gazer carrying Okeetee het Sunkissed female - untested at that time) out to an anery motley and those progeny were sold with no info as at the time I had no info to give. I know later on of one pair of them that produced a suspected gazer animal. So yes, I suspect I have sold animals carrying the gene. Is there shame there? No. What did I feel obliged to do after that when I tested Mattie and found her to be a carrier? I posted publicly that she had been tested positive for carrying stargazing on the forum I was on at the time and contacted as many people as I could remember to let them know. This was before the possible carrier animals were even old enough to breed. Since then I've made it my goal to find out as much as possible about the condition and have been working to educate as many people as possible on the facts and implications of what we've discovered so far. I then went on to prove that gazer animals, if you actually try to give them a chance to grow up, go on to lead pretty normal lives, eating, drinking, growing the same as their non-affected siblings. In addition, I'm working to complete all the test crosses needed to absolutely prove inheritance and I've been working on determining the actual defect that causes the condition. Did I do this out of shame or guilt? No. It's a puzzle solving problem mixed with knowing that I can eliminate the gene from my collection and feeling morally obligated to do so within the means that I have available.

If someone asks me if such-and-such an animal carries the gene or possibly carries the gene, yes or no, I'll answer honestly with the information I have available at the time. My hope is that with an open-door policy, so to speak, we can all help each other out with getting ourselves some cleared lines to work with and at least remove the gene from our collections should we choose to do so. I really hope this whole fear of talking about it and admitting the possibility it could be in our lines will be obliterated and people won't be afraid to test breed their stock for fear that it'll reduce sales or act as verification that it's in their lines and lead to shunning or other such nonsense. Quite honestly, if someone avoids my stock because I'm trying to clear it of the gazer gene, I'm glad they won't be owning one of my animals. I guess it's a good thing this is a hobby to me and not a business, LOL. The monetary end of the hobby means very little to me, but living up to my personal goals and standards means the world.




So, that's the "state of my union" as I know it today. Feel free to discuss. Opposing viewpoints and discussion are always welcomed, but keep it polite and respectful.

Please keep in mind that mud slinging, name calling, and personal attacks are not appreciated, warranted, and will not be tolerated from any viewpoint / side of the discussion. Luckily we're big enough adults to argue and discuss and walk away for a drink afterwards, friends. I'm fine with "agree to disagree" so discuss away!




A note on terminology utilized in the hobby:

Stargazing - the condition described above - Heritable Vestibular Syndrome in the Corn Snake
Gazer - an animal affected by (homozygous for) stargazing
Carrier - an animal known to be heterozygous for stargazing
S-factored - animal is a carrier, heterozygous for stargazing
*S - S-factored, see above

[FireDrake]

quick question.... I have been waiting until there are more gazer free lines before I look into getting any... do you forsee the proven gazer free snakes being more expensive than the unknown status ones?

Thanks

[Serpwidgets]

Originally Posted by FireDrake

quick question.... I have been waiting until there are more gazer free lines before I look into getting any... do you forsee the proven gazer free snakes being more expensive than the unknown status ones?

Thanks

Personally, I intend to add a premium for tested stock. I think this will help to ensure whomever buys them is specifically interested in working with gazer-free stock and continuing to track clean lines and keep them going. I also think, for anyone who is on the fence about testing, it might add some incentive to test their own snakes.

[FireDrake]

Originally Posted by Serpwidgets

Personally, I intend to add a premium for tested stock. I think this will help to ensure whomever buys them is specifically interested in working with gazer-free stock and continuing to track clean lines and keep them going. I also think, for anyone who is on the fence about testing, it might add some incentive to test their own snakes.

that makes sense!

[Hurley]

Yes, I also plan to put some sort of a premium on gazer tested clear stock. I don't really care if I make a dollar selling snakes, it's a hobby to me. My job pays better, LOL. However, people tend to place value on their animals (right or wrong) based on what they pay for it. People that are looking for the cheapest sunkissed they can buy, likely aren't going to be ones dedicated to trying to keep records and clear lines, so the gazer free stock would be wasted on them. Price generally goes up when favorable genes are added...charcoal, diffusion, whatnot. I'd consider it favorable to know the snake is homozygous for normalcy (not carrying stargazing). So, I'll likely do as Kathy does with her Okeetees and price them according to favorable qualities - gazer free stock being priced somewhat higher than untested/unknown status stock.

As Serp said, it'll tend to put that stock in the hands of people who value it that way and I hope it'll put more value on those lines supporting those who put the work in and rewarding them with hatchlings that are worth a bit more. Selling isn't my favorite thing (by far), but it's a necessary "evil" so to speak. In this case (taking away "cuz I can make more money" motive), the potential benefits of pricing them a bit higher still greatly outweighs the negatives, so they will be priced higher. If I don't price them higher, there will be no perceived value to having a gazer-free line especially amoungst those who place the monetary value of the animal as high priority. It's sad, but true. I see the mentality every day. "Why would I pay more than 50 bucks for medical care for this puppy from the pound, I can buy another for less than that!" I price things at a value the hopefully weeds out the "bargain seekers" in hopes of them having a better home.

[adsclarke]

Hi guys,

Thanks for this great post and information on Star Gazing in corns.

I think the work you are doing and the attitude you have towards it are top notch and wanted to thank you publicly for it.

I'm taking the same view on it and all animals that are a high risk of being carriers will be labelled as status unknown. I'm planning on testing the lines we have here, most of which come from a single male but we have others imported to the UK from America.

I'm just hoping that I will be able to get some known carriers or homozygous Star Gazer animals imported this year for testing. I don't know of any that have been bred in the UK as yet. I really want to get on to testing as quickly as possible.

Thanks
Ads

[Serpwidgets]

I don't know whether or not it's in my lines but I know Zammy's father is het for it, which makes her 50% poss s-factored. I am testing her, along with the founder of the honey lines. I think it's great that Don was willing to send her here to try and clear those lines. It will make a huge difference whatever the result. If either of them are positive I will go about finding a clean branch of the family tree to work with for future projects.

I'm also testing Inferno, the sunkissed amel I got a few years ago. He's being bred to a female gazer this year.

[Hurley]

EXCITING UPDATE - Thanks Kathy!

Just how prevalent is stargazing in the founding Sunkissed lines?

Somehow despite what has been discussed, most people I speak with/email with still seem to feel like there were just a few animals among hundreds that carried stargazing in the orginal stock and that the odds are low for it to have been passed down. Hopefully this information will show just how thickly the gene popped up in the original Sunkissed/Okeetee lines that are the forefathers of all Sunkissed stock out there today.

Attached below is the data from our review of Kathy Love’s breeding records from 1996 to 2005 (including animals hatched back to 1987) for Okeetee/Sunkissed pairings. Kathy generously has supplied a copy of the records for Chuck and I to review
1 - to determine the inheritance pattern of the stargazing trait (overwhelmingly appears to be recessive, no sex or morph predilection)
2 - to determine from breeding results probabilities for these founding breeders to be carrying stargazing
3 - to identify carrier animals within the colony for Kathy's and everyone's use in attempting to identify animals of concern / clear lines

Obviously we don’t have a status on every snake, but from the crosses made we know that in the males used during those years:

Only 2 are shown to be clear (to a 99.5% probability)
10 are unproven
14 of the 26 breeder males are known to be S-factored

Even if you were to give the benefit of the doubt and say for the sake of argument that the unprovens are not carriers (which is very unlikely), this still means that over half the males are carriers. Add to this that several of the carrier males at the top of the list were used extensively in the Okeetee and Sunkissed breeding program, getting crossed to the majority of the females of their times. In the females, prior to 1995 most were proven clean (by crosses to those carrier males). Following that year, the number of s-factored females proven rose sharply, presumably because of the heavy use of males that happened to be carrying the gene resulting in carrier females being held back from these clutches.

This information is valuable and we are currently entering the gazer status on all of the known S-factored animals as well as all of the 99%+ proven clear animals into the ACR registry, so the information will be there for viewing by anyone researching back into the pedigrees of these snakes' descendants. A large number of Kathy's snakes are now in the registry along with dummy records for other animals from the past.

The following table is a list of all the known animals in Kathy’s Okeetee/Sunkissed breeding colony from 1996 to 2005 and the probability (if known) that they are free of star-gazing (or if they are known S-factored). The red marked animals are KNOWN s-factored animals. The green marked animals are proven 99%+ probable NOT s-factored animals. The non-colored animals are unknown at this time due to no test cross being performed with sufficient numbers. Morph of the animals are listed where known.

Hopefully this will bring home just how prevalent the stargazing gene was in the original line of Sunkissed/Okeetee animals. Remember, ALL SUNKISSEDS ARE DESCENDED FROM THIS LINE...THESE ANIMALS. This was a relatively small gene pool and the incidence of the gene was extremely prevalent, as we can see now in retrospect when we look back through the crosses and the results.

Thank you Kathy, again, for all that you are doing to help us attempt to clear these lines and for being willing and open to discuss stargazing as well as to provide information on the breeders to help give everyone as much information on their stock’s ancestors as possible. We will be hopefully analyzing records from 2007 on to note any other additional information to the listing below.

Table of all animals included in the records along with status (if known):
Keep in mind the males are crossed to many more females than females to
males, so the chance that an s-factored animal will be discovered is much
higher in heavily used males.

[Cornsnakesalive]

Originally Posted by Hurley

I have stargazing in my collection. Let me be the first to say it, and say it with no shame, slight, or embarrassment. This is not a venereal disease, though it seems to be treated as such. It is not something to be embarrassed about and not something to hide. It is a fact of nature. A mutation occurred in the past and this mutation, just like amelanism or anerythrism, is a genetic accident that has been passed down through generations and due to its recessive nature pops up when carriers are paired.

DITTO!

My first introduction to the SG gene was in 2003 during my testing of the new Lava Gene. I obtained a Sunkissed from Kathy L to test with Lava. I also obtained more Sunkissed in the following years that were produced by Kathy. I was informed of the SG produced from this line and that each were possible carriers of the gene. Very little was known about the cause of SG, but it was suspected to be genetic.

I feel for Kathy being associated with and connected to the SG gene origins, but it could have happened to anybody. She is credited with discovering Sunkissed, and in the process accidentally found SG as well. Kathy should be commended for the way she handled this undesirable gene being found in her collection. Kathy’s full discloser about the information she knew about this gene as she learned about it, is a tribute to her honesty.

It is very unfortunate that some people who obtained Sunkissed produced by Kathy, ignore the information she provided about SG, and created many Sunkissed projects without any regard for spreading the gene. These same people produced SG from their projects and covered it up. It is extremely unfortunate they were not honest like Kathy was, because they are largely responsible for spreading the SG into the wholesale market and into many private collections. I am not innocent of letting the SG slip through my colony either. I have sold many Sunkissed ph SG carriers with the same info Kathy first gave me about the gene.

Today, I have a new strategy, that began in 2008. I was able to begin a testing project with an adult pair of Het SG obtained from Kathy. All offspring from SG tests were culled. In 2008, I was also lucky to be able to obtain a male Stargazer from CCC, which has grown to adulthood. In 2009, I produced 7 SG from two of my Sunkissed Projects. 1.1 Adult het SG from one project and 2.3 adult het SG from another, proved to be het for SG. This also proved their ancestor Sunkissed het SG as well, at least in my mind. Unfortunately, I used some of these Sunkissed to start other projects, so I have 50% ph SG projects all over the place or so it seems.

Look where I am at today, just 6 years after my first breeding with Sunkissed. Most of my projects are 50% ph Stargazer. I suspect most other Sunkissed projects around the country are similarly infected and many know it, and others haven’t discovered it yet. I kept back enough project numbers, that I stepped into it big in 2009. I am actually not complaining. I now have a army of adult het SG and one adult SG to test with in 2010 and 3.3 2009 SG, that are thriving, that will be my ultimate testers in the future. If knowledge is power, then I have the upper hand now, in proving out Stargazer Free lines of Sunkissed.

The purpose of this post will be three fold, to discuss the current status of the SG gene in my colony, to identify which ACR Registered Corns are het for SG, so others can trace offspring back to a proven SG, and to discuss my future testing to locate and identify SG carriers in my colony. Testing and culling will help to slow the spread of the SG gene and prove lines of Sunkissed Stargazer Free. Luckily, due to the ACR and my records, I know exactly which of my offspring trace back to my original Sunkissed. All offspring from my original Sunkissed, will be registered with the ACR so others can track them and we will establish SG free lines of Sunkissed registered with the ACR.

In 2003, I bred Lava X Sunkissed and produced all Normals. Lava was proven incompatible with Sunkissed, which was my goal, and the beginning of my love affair with Sunkissed. I held back most of this clutch and today we have Sunkissed Lavas because of this test. The Lava from the test was sold and I lost the Sunkissed female from this test years later. From this cross, 13 normal hatchlings were produced. I held onto 3.5 of them and raise them to adults. In 2005 I began to breed this group. Each male has been bred to each female, and no SG have been produced to date. I have held onto many offspring from this project .

ACR 2021 Het Lava/Sunkissed, proven het Anery
ACR 2022 Het Lava/Sunkissed, proven het Snow
ACR 2023 Het Lava/Sunkissed, proven het Snow
ACR 2024 Het Lava/Sunkissed, proven het Amel
ACR 2025 Het Lava/Sunkissed, proven Het Anery, NOT het Amel
ACR 2026 Het Lava/Sunkissed, proven NOT het Anery
ACR 2027 Het Lava/Sunkissed, proven Het Anery, NOT Amel

This group all started out as Het Lava/Sunkissed and I have proven out most as het Amel, or Anery and know which are not carrying the gene. You would think by now I would have discovered if the SG is in this group, but even now after all these years and multiple clutches, if both males are not carriers of the SG and ALL females are, I still may not have seen SG. I have begun to used F2 males bred back to the females from this clutch and still no SG have been seen. Personally, I feel it is unlikely that the SG does exist in the Project, but I am not 100% convinced.

In the years to come, I began creating many crosses with Sunkissed for projects to combine other genes with Sunkissed.

BREEDINGS
2003
Lava X Sunkissed (13 Normals produced)

2004
Ultramel Motley het Caramel X Sunkissed (ACR1216 x ACR 2018)
(Ultra X Sunkissed Test by Kat)

2005
Bloodred het Anery X Sunkissed (ACR2039 X ACR2019)
Snow Motley X Sunkissed (ACR 2040 X ACR 2020)
Sunkissed X Striped Anery (ACR1204 X ACR 2038)
Sunkissed X Sunkissed (ACR 1204 X ACR 2018) (NO SG produced from 15 hatchlings)

2006
Striped Lav X Sunkissed (ACR2040 X ACR 2020)
Sunkissed X OK het Sunkissed (ACR 1204 X ACR 2067)

2007 Sunkissed X OK het Sunkissed (ACR1204 X ACR 2067)(19 hatch NO SG)

2009
Pied Sided X Sunkissed (ACR 3700 X ACR 2020)
　
TESTING 2008:
ACR 1204 X ACR 653 (Sunkissed X Het Striped Blood SG) 23 eggs laid, all went bad.
ACR 705 X ACR 2019 (Het Striped Blood SG x Sunkissed) 18 eggs hatched NO SG.
ACR 705 X ACR 2020 (Het Striped Blood SG x Sunkissed) 20 eggs hatched NO SG.

After my 2008 Testing, I concluded that ACR 2019 and 2020 were Stargazer Free. In 2009, Stargazers were produced from F2 offspring from 2019 and 2020. My conclusion, is that ACR 705 and 653 are not carrying the Sunkissed Stargazer gene. This pair did produce an offspring that was identified as being a Stargazer. This offspring was either one of many possible mimic causes of Stargazer OR we have another gene that caused neurological symptoms similar to Stargazer. In 2010, I will be breeding 705 x 653 to see if Stargazer mimics are produced. I am hoping, it was an isolated incident, because the last thing we need is another Stargazer like gene.

Sunkissed Monarchs at CornSnakesAlive!

ACR 1208 Sunkissed (Optimus), M, produced by Kathy L
Stargazing status: Het Stargazer

F1 offspring ACR6515 x 6517 One Stargazer produced, but died shortly after birth for no apparent reason.

ACR 2018 Sunkissed, produced by Kathy L
Stargazing Status: Stargazer Free

TEST(2005): 1208 x 2018 (NO SG produced from 15 hatchlings)

ACR 2019 Sunkissed, F produced by Kathy L
Stargazing Status: Het Stargazer

F2 Stargazer produced by customer, from Het Sunkissed Bloods. I have not produced a SG from this line yet, but it is there.

ACR2020 Sunkissed, F produced by Kathy L
Stargazing status: Het Stargazer

2009, six F2 Stargazers produced from the line
ACR6526, 6527, 6528, 6529, 6530, 6531

ACR 2067 Okeetee het Sunkissed, Produced by Kathy L
Stargazing Status: Stargazer Free

TEST (2006) 1208 x 2967 (ACR 1204 X ACR 2067) (17 hatch NO SG)
TEST (2007) ACR1204 X ACR 2067(19 hatch NO SG)

Out of 5 Kathy L Sunkissed and het Sunkissed, 3 have proven to be het Stargazer and two have proven to be Stargazer Free, based upon 1208 being het Stargazer. Since the only proof I have that 1208 is het Stargazer, is from a single Stargazer hatchling produced in 2009, which died shortly after, I am reluctant to say he is 100% het Stargazer.

2010 TESTING PLANS AND GOALS:
1208 will be bred to TWO known het Stargazer females. When Stargazers are produced from this breeding, the test between 1208 x 2018, and 1208 x 2067 will be verified. 2018 created my Sunkissed Lava line and Sunkissed Lava Ultra line. 2067 created my Okeetees het Lava that I produced Landrace Lavas from. So far, these two lines look extremely promising to prove out to be Stargazer Free.

Scrapping my lines from Sunkissed that have proved to be het for Stargazer has crossed my mind many times, but I have begun to think about my situation differently lately. Even though a Sunkissed proved to be het Stargazer, 50% of their offspring are Stargazer Free. My goals from testing will be to prove out Stargazer free Sunkissed from each and every Kathy L Sunkissed Line that I have. Each line is extremely hardy and worthy of being preserved. I will begin testing each Sfactored Sunkissed Project Corn that I have one by one, until I prove out clean offspring from each.

I would like to thank Kathy L for her honesty about the Stargazer Gene that came from her Sunkissed Line. If not for her, I would not know the status of the Stargazing gene in my colony today. I would also like to thank Chuck and Connie for creating the ACR and maintaining it. Without the ACR, I would have extremely difficult time keeping track of my Sunkissed Lines of Corns. Thanks to the ACR, I know exactly where each and every Sunkissed Line Corn is in my collection. Knowledge is power, and the ACR gives us that and much more.
　

[Hurley]

Our first Gazer x Gazer test cross is pipping today. The first hatchling exited the egg and yep, it's a gazer. There are 3 more good eggs in the clutch to go, will update when they hatch.